Let's Talk About Marriage, Aging, and even Swiss Cheese

The inner lives of elder couples in love have wisdom for us

“What would it be like to be with couples who weren't afraid to talk about their inner lives, weren't afraid to look at some of the wounding that has happened in their marriage, and talk about how they work through this stuff. And also how would aging impact all of that.”

Those questions became a road trip and then a book! And now a fascinating hour that spans vulnerability, spirituality, evening rituals, four things about men and relationships, and more…

I invite you to listen to (and share) my recent Creative Courage Live conversation with authors Caryl and Jay Casbon about their new book, Side by Side: The Sacred Art of Couples Aging with Wisdom & Love. Their story goes back about five years to a dream Jay had, which kicked off a road trip in an RV to go interview elder couples about what makes marriage work.

Here are some of the key topics we covered (i.e., the show notes):

00:00 Beginning with groovy music and the ego story (author bios).

2:09. How Jay’s dream and a failure of a retreat led to this Side by Side journey.

5:11. How did an RV come into the picture and how is marriage like a road trip in an RV.

10:21. What kind of courage did Caryl & Jay need for this project?

15:16. How the elder couples’ courage to be vulnerable to share their marriage stories reveals the difference between soul stories and ego stories.

17:56. Where the idea of faith fits into Side by Side and how a rewrite of the book led to blessings they call The Beatitudes for Couples.

20:40. For example, one chapter opens with “Blessed is the couple who cares about the others’ needs as much as their own, for they shall enjoy the fruits of mutuality.” I had to ask, what do you mean by mutuality?

23:33. How is a relationship a spiritual journey? What happens to a spiritually as we age, what happens to our relationship as we age and where is the intersection of those themes?

27:45. The inspiration behind this open, honest question: “If your photos on your walls could talk, what would they say about your family of origin in terms of race, religion, background and culture?” And this one, “How have you become strangers to each other, or undergone long periods of estrangement in your relationship?”

34:28. What’s the difference between saying “Hi honey, how was your day?” and really checking in with each other with intention, or an evening ritual? The answers are why the Casbons recommend reading Side by Side aloud to each other (but it’s not required).

40:48. Friends warned the Casbons, if you go ahead with this project, watch out. You’ll find cracks in your relationship. Hear how that “dark gift” turned out for their marriage! Listen too for Swiss cheese and soft eyes.

“Having grown up with Disney, just relationships from Disneyland, no one really spoke the truth about the realities. You know, they're challenging. And we welcome that, because it's where you grow.” —Caryl Casbon

“…marriage isn't for everyone. But for those who think it's worthwhile, I think one of the things we're saying is ‘take it on.’ Yeah, go ahead and take it on. We're going to cheer for you, because it's worth taking on. And there's a lot of joy in the relationship, as well as the hard work.” —Jay Casbon

49:42. What are the four things Jay is learning about “today’s men and relationship”, including the “nasty little secret” many men harbor plus an amazing thing about men.

53:18. How could reading the Side by Side book be a form of community building, whether it's one on one or in small groups – and why having a couples group matters regardless of how long you’ve been married. (Newlyweds can be in their 80s, by the way).  

Caryl ended with this encouragement: “People are living a lot longer these days. And if you have the gift of long life, and different relationships, it's just a great time to be more conscious about all that.”

We hope this Creative Courage Live conversation on YouTube intrigues you and entices you to order a copy of Side by Side for yourself and perhaps even ask your local library or senior center to order copies too.

You can find links and more about the Side by Side project (including video clips of the original interviews) at www.SidebySideAging.com. Let us know what you think!

P.S. The intro music clip is from "Just This Day" by Alan Claassen. Used with permission of the artist. Hear the entire groovy song at SoundCloud: